I think that Blondie is right - I am going to check it and get the quote from the elder's manual.
BRB
Jeff
AK - Jeff
JoinedPosts by AK - Jeff
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29
What does the elder manual say the procedure is?
by mkr32208 inwhat does the elder manual say the procedure is when someone reports child abuse?
my father in law is telling my wife that is says to go straight to the proper authorities... i have a hard time buying that since thats not what the watchtowers i've seen have said!
any one have the low down on this?
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27
IF YOU ARE FADING?
by vitty indo you still go to the memorial?
and if not is this a reason to dfs you?.
and if or when you stopped going did you feel guilty?.
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AK - Jeff
Vitvinn-
I agree that you cannot be DF'd for not attending the Memorial. But beware. A caveat in the policies allows elders to view you as a member of the congregation and begin to investigate you for bad conduct, on the basis of attending as few as one meeting.
They are not restricted to that, as some have attested. Sometimes they go after 'weak ones', that have not attended for years. But technically, if they follow the rules, and we know they do not at times, you could be setting yourself up for an investigation more easily if they see you there at the hall.
I recently refused to attend a funeral at the hall, to avoid that situation. Also I don't see any reason to give them cause to think in your direction at all if you wish to fade. At least that is how we have decided to do it in the past year of our 'fade'.
Just My Opinion - Jeff
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16
The need for "Fellowship"
by maybesbabies init seems to me that a recurring theme for exiting witnesses is not their questions of faith (most have researched mightily before coming here, or had their own crisis of conscience), but the lack of fellowship that will happen if they leave.
it feels good to be part of a group, to feel wanted and needed.
the problem arises when that fellowship is not based on you as a person, but by what image you present, or how much you "produce".
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AK - Jeff
Find like people, and learn to socialize.
That is the trick - we have lost that skill. I remember moving across the country 1200 miles. Within 2 days we were in the thick of 'friends' at the new hall. We never had to 'make' friends after we joined the organization, in fact we were forbidden to. Now we have to learn again what was robbed of us.
Just My Opinion Jeff
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14
Would you continue to be a JW if?
by XQsThaiPoes inyou knew what things the jws are wrong about, and did not praticipate in them, or propagate them (there would be no reprisal from the boe or other jws if you did this).
your family and friends would treat you the same if you were a jw or not.
i am wondering who would be compelled by some inner flame to leave jws even if you could stay and believe or behave how you wanted.
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AK - Jeff
As GaryBuss stated it would take a complete overhaul to accomplish what you suggest. Some of what you state might come to pass - as the organization attempts to stop the hemoragging. But if all of that happened wouldn't it just become another church?
the whole backbone of the org is the effort to control all that one does - it is very little about doctrine -and mostly about obedience to the organization -
Most witnesses -dyed in wool - would not leave the organization if they did a 180 on all the major doctrines - hellfire, trinity, condition of the dead, great crowd.
Even though they are unaware of it - they are not there because they are sure they have the one 'truth' - they are there because they think the 'organization' has that elusive 'truth' -and they are willing to follow. Don't believe that? Go back and see what the org believed in 1900, or even in 1930? Not a single doctrine is intact - but the organization is still leading and some millions are willing to follow whereever it goes.
Just My Opinion Jeff
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23
What does the Watchtower gain...
by homme perdu in.
by recruiting new members,expanding.
is it money?
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AK - Jeff
I must agree with all the previous postings on this point.
I think that there strong force at work here in the ideological commitment to the concept that they have the truth - and that it should be spead far and abroad by the evangelical efforts of the organization. Penton compares it to the zeal of the Catholic church and to the Soviet bloc of nations. The spead of the ideology outweighs all else. In the mind of the Brooklyn elite, there is a need to expand and continue to grow in spite of the current slow-down in growth.
I do believe there must be a certain awareness of the subtle mind-control at work - but I think it is primarily a continuation of what works, rather than an all out effort at intentional manipulation. Men like Franz, Penton, Reed, Randall, all were in high profile positions and had no honest and external awareness of the part they played in mental control. But they were willing participants in it - and victims of it- so were many on this site. Perhaps the eyes of others - even GB members will open. That would be helpful, as it was with Franz. But it will be silenced quickly as it was with him.
Logical problems are ahead for the JW organization. But as long as the mindset at the top remains as it is - we will not see much change - except as needed to maintain control. Much like the changes in the Catholic Church over the centuries, or more recently with the Soviet bloc and Russia. What ever it takes to maintain control and power over the masses. They will attribute any changes - massive or miniscule - to a change in direction of 'Jehovah's Chariot'.
Just My Opinion Jeff
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4
Resignation of Greenlees and Chitty from Governing Body - anyone know about
by AK - Jeff inon page 322 of penton's apocolypse delayed (second edition), he states that leo greenlees and ewart chitty were removed from the gb, but never disfellowshipped.
the issue was homosexuality, according to penton.. does anyone have more specific info on this matter?
i only came on board this forum a month ago and i have not seen this mentioned.
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AK - Jeff
Thanx for the links Englishman and Mulan - seems to be far to much 'smoke' without any real 'fire' - huh?
Jeff
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A Friend just died
by AK - Jeff inone of the local elders - whom i loved dearly when we were in - just died.
funny how when you get out of this organization your attitude in life completely reverses, huh?
a year and half ago, just before starting the 'fade', i actually took my vacation days in order to attend the sunday meetings (i work a weekend shift now).
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AK - Jeff
Thanx, Valis.
Jeff
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9
A Friend just died
by AK - Jeff inone of the local elders - whom i loved dearly when we were in - just died.
funny how when you get out of this organization your attitude in life completely reverses, huh?
a year and half ago, just before starting the 'fade', i actually took my vacation days in order to attend the sunday meetings (i work a weekend shift now).
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AK - Jeff
Thanx all for your support and condolence. I think we will not go - for the reasons stated. We will send cards to all the family, which is much more than any did when Mom died in the summer.
Thanx Again
Jeff
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Have JW's and Born-Agains been taking for a ride with Armaggeddon/Rapture?
by booker-t ini have been seriously thinking that jw's and born-again christians have both been victims of the armaggeddon/rapture merry go round.
christians have been looking for the rapture for 2000 years and still nothing has happened.
jw's have been looking for armaggeddon for over 130 years now and still nothing has happened.
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AK - Jeff
Come on now how long is these events going to take to come? What happens if nothing has happened in the year 3000 will JW's and BA's concede and admit that they were duped into believing a "fantasy" or will they continue singing the old tired song Armaggeddon/Rapture is just around the corner.
Since the Borg adjusts a new date on average about every ten years or so - then I expect they would have recieved a minimum of 100 new might understandings by then on the matter of the date. Funny, I seem to remember that Christ said 'no man knows the day or the hour'. Maybe by 3000 they will figure that out?
Naw!
Jeff
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27
What would you say to a JW at your door?
by Undecided in.
i will say:i don't need the watchtower magazine because i already know what it says: since i'm an apostate, wicked slave class worldly person and don't beleive the new light from the governing body of the faithful and discrete slave class, i will be buzzard meat at armageddon very soon now, unless there is more new light about it not being as soon as predicted, like so many times before.
ken p.
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AK - Jeff
Right now - if any came - it would be the local Pharasees. Since they would like to 'stone' me if they could.
It is today just 2 degrees (F) outside. IF they came today - I would step onto the porch and have nice long conversation with them until they started to turn blue - or some limbs started to fall off due to frostbite. I can out talk any of them anyway when it comes to the Bible - I can tolerate the cold much longer than they can -since I work outside in it all the time. Once they went into convulsions, I would suggest they step back into the car and warm up - I will wait for them and we could finish our conversation. If they asked how I could stand the cold - I would tell them that it looks like Jehovah is sustaining me with his Holy Spirit - and since you have been 'appointed by Holy spirit' - I wonder why you are loosing conscienceness while I am eating an icicle off the evespout? I would offer them a cold drink or an ice cream cone before they left, just to be hospitable.
Jeff